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Page last updated Monday, 04 January 2010
Consumers hoping to write off their debts through a legal loophole have been dealt a blow aftera recent ruling on six test cases.Judge Waksman, sitting at the High Court in
But he confirmed that if a lender could not supply a copy of the loan agreement, then this automatically prevented them from using the courts to chase a debt until such time as they could come up with a copy.
As this case was heard in the High Court it will set a precedent for an estimated 150,000 cases currently sitting in other courts around the country that were waiting the outcome. In the majority of theses cases consumers were trying to avoid payment of their credit card and loans on the grounds that the bank had either lost or destroyed the original signed agreements.
Dispute over loan agreement
Upon request from the consumer lenders are obliged to supply a copy of the credit card or loan agreement within 12 days. In previous cases those representing consumers have cited that if no agreement is produced then the debt is unenforceable, which has led to disputes between lenders and customers about what constitutes a true copy.
Following this test case it has been ruled that
• a copy of the loan agreement must contain the name and address of the borrower as it was at the time it was signed
• if an agreement has been subsequently varied by the lender, then the lender is obliged to supply a copy of both the original agreement as well as the current one.
Office of Fair Trading (OFT)
Some of the claims promoted by the Claims Management Companies (CMCs) clearly conflict with the OFT's guidance which says that it is legal and acceptable for a bank that has lost the original loan agreement, or whose copy is illegible, to supply an accurate reconstituted version instead in order to demonstrate that the agreement did in fact contain the information specified by the Consumer Credit Act.
The regulator points out to lenders that they are acting unfairly and potentially in breach of their consumer credit licenses if they misled borrowers by:
• hiding or disguising the fact that there was never a proper signed agreement in the first place
• providing only a copy of the current terms and conditions, not the original ones
• confusing the borrower as to who they should send an information request after selling the debt to a debt collection company
• failing to preserve data so the borrower cannot be given an up to date statement of account.
Borrowers still liable under previous High Court ruling.
Even if banks cannot produce a copy of the original agreement, borrowers could still be held liable for their debts due to a previous ruling at the High Court in
In the previous High Court ruling it also clarified ‘enforcement’ by the lender. It ruled that by deciding to bring legal proceedings it is not actually enforcement but a step towards enforcement.
This basically means that any steps the lender takes before commencing legal proceedings, such as demands for payment, issue of default notices and or threatening legal action does not construe enforcement.
Some people feel that those with debt problems have been exploited through their desperation and vulnerability as many consumers have been cold called by CMCs claiming they can write off credit card and personal loan debts by using this legal loophole. For this service consumers usually pay up front fees between £195 and £495 per agreement, in the hope they will become debt free. Some of these fees have been added to the credit card debt they are trying to wipe out.
There will still be some lenders that cannot produce a ‘true copy’ of the agreement, which may lead to the debts not being enforced but this, is expected to be restricted to just a small proportion of the banking industry. For a ‘true copy’ all the lender needs to do is insert the correct credit amount, the credit rate and the original terms and conditions. They will only be able to do this though if they have the original loan agreement or know the original terms and conditions.
Borrowers will still be able to employ the services of a CMC and pay fees for this but there is no reason why they cannot do this them self and obtain a copy of their agreement for a nominal fee. After this they can then consider approaching a CMC for further advice.
If you are struggling to repay your debts, then think about getting some professional advice on how you can manage the payments. There is no guarantee you will be successful in getting the debts written off and there is also a moral issue about repaying the lender that initially advanced you the money in good faith.
SEEK ADVICE with a view to how to restructure your finances. This may include entering into a repayment programme that you can afford such as a debt management plan, Individual Voluntary Arrangement (IVA) or even bankruptcy.
We have some useful links for you below;
Six option guide to getting out of debt
nokes (Guest) Tuesday, 18 October 2011
thanks mike i have done that
Knocker
Debtwizard Tuesday, 18 October 2011
Hi Nokes
Pop along to my forum, see link at the top of every page, copy and paste your message and I will see what I can do for you. I have a template letter to send them.
Best wishes
Mike
nokes Tuesday, 18 October 2011
hi
i have just been contacted by marlin regarding a debt that is so old i dont even remember when it is from. they said they had contacted me various times by letter but i have never received any apart from the more recent one which is threatening to say the least. i have respondede by disputing the amount and also asking for a signed copy of an agreement and also statements of any previous payments made so that i can review. Are they bound by law to provide these to me or else the debt is un enforcable.
Knocker
David Murray (Guest) Friday, 29 July 2011
Adding to that information, I hasten to point out that in the aforementioned letter, it clearly stated: "May I ask that, if you have any intention whatsoever of taking me to court in connection with this matter, you do so now instead of subjecting my family and me to years of harassment from debt collecting agencies?" As I have previously stated, in no cases did this happen.
Debt collecting agencies rely on two tactics:1. Putting the frighteners on you I.e. 'We will take you to court, your debt will substantially increase or we will send a field collector out to interview you to establish your means of paying this long overdue debt. 2. Repeatedly telephoning you until you agree to a repayment plan.
The key to defeating them is to hold your nerve. If the ring or (not known by me) turn up, do not be afraid and say so. Point out that it will cost your creditor at least £400 to take you to court, just to obtain a worthless bit of paper. Also point out that, as you are unemployed, live in a rented house, have no money and no car etc, non of the enforcement options apply to you - I.e. Bailiffs cannot break into premises used only as a dwelling house. Tell them to simply get stuffed and that their threats do not frighten you. After a while, they give up and turn to someone else. I know, I have seen it
David Murray (Guest) Friday, 29 July 2011
I am a former Town Councillor and for nearly 15 years ran my own one-man citizens advice bureau. I assisted many with debt problems. If unemployed and in receipt of state benefits as the only source of income, living in a rented house and no car etc parked outside, such a person can tell the Debt Collection Agencies to get stuffed.
I would type out a letter setting out their position and give it to them. They would make several photocopies at the library or post office and send one back every time a letter came from the agency. In the 15 years I did this:
NO ONE WAS TAKEN TO COURT,
NO COLLECTOR CAME TO THE DOOR,
AFTER A FEW YEARS, ALL LETTERS, PHONE CALLS SIMPLY STOPPED.
In such cases, the agencies know that the only weapon in their armoury is fear. If they can frighten you, then you might start to pay. If you stand up to them, they pester you with phone calls. Nowadays, it is easy to change your telephone number: if you have a house/ landline telephone, ring 150 - it's free. Tell them you are receiving unwanted telephone calls. They will give you a new number and the change takes about an hour. Mobile?just buy a new sim card for a rennet!
Debtwizard Friday, 14 January 2011
Hi Jo
Why don't you post your query/problem on the DebtWizard forum – just place the mouse over the link ‘Forum’ on the top of every page and select what you want to do from the drop down menu.
Just sign up, select a nickname and copy and paste this question/query in the forum and we will see what we can do to help you.
Mike
Jo (Guest) Friday, 14 January 2011
We are currently in a legal dispute with two different credit card companies, both of which hold breaches in the terms and conditions, as like 'Sparkie'. We have paid both a financial company and a Solicitor for their services in this matter, and now after reading so many articles on uca's, we have no confidence in either. Not sure were to turn now, feel a bit lost.
Sparkie (Guest) Wednesday, 27 October 2010
In a dispute I had with The Bank of Scotland, I had THREE different agreents with THREE different terms and conditions that the Bank stated each time was my agreement, but only one of them had my signature on, the terms and conditions that they stated were the terms and conditions for WERE NOT the trems and conditions because I had the originals which the Bank dodn't........THis shows that Waksman was wrong and shows that he has given the banks carte blanche to make up any terms and conditions they like.......I have the evidence to show that Judgement was completely and utterly wrong. I can supply this evidence to who ever wishes to challenge this ruling.
The BOS refused to tae me to Court and wrote the whole debty off which was a fairly large one
JUNO (Guest) Friday, 11 June 2010
Capital one failed to produce a true copy of the agreement. Sent micro of 'flyer' saying will be considered for a card and t & c's which clearly breach s.61 with regard credit limit being set when they feel like it!
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Mike Thomas aka the 'DebtWizard' helps individuals overcome their debt problems.
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